Hubby, Money, and Investing
May 27th, 2008 by Ana
Yes, I’ve been quiet recently. A little over a week ago I had a very eye-opening money talk with hubby that really threw me for a loop. Where to begin …?
It all started with a discussion about the economic “stimulus” payment that came in half of what we expected (granted, I hadn’t bothered to run the numbers through one of the website calculators out there). So instead of having $900 or $1200 to play with, we only got $600. I shouldn’t fuss, since we are in the ZERO % tax bracket. Hubby has asked for $150 of it, and I agreed, figuring he had some anniversary plans he was keeping secret.
Well, after the anniversary evening out, hubby asked if he could write the check for the money market/big emergency fund deposit for only $400 instead of $450 … Yes, it was “only” $50 but I thought I was being generous by letting him have one quarter of the “stimulus” to begin with! I of course wanted to stuff all but $50 of it into the big emergency fund.
It was time for another Big Money Discussion, with capital letters. I learned he feels “poor” because he doesn’t have as much spending money as he did before he went to Korea (and before I started budgeting). He learned (?) I have a deep psychological need to have a big honkin’ emeergency fund for security, as the expenses section of the budget keeps growing due to gasoline and food price increases combined with concerns about upcoming tuition bills. So far, so good …
Then I made the remark I wanted to hurry up, tighten the belt, and get that big emergency fund funded so I could move on to investing. Hubby said he didn’t like investing … he preferred to keep his money in his checking account, or maybe a money market account at best.
GASP!! CHOKE!!! cough, sputter … !!!!! Insert mental image of me banging my head against the desk! After making quite a few shocked noises, I asked him how he could say that …??!?
This is a basic synopsis of several conversations over the past week and a half: Hubby doesn’t understand investing. It’s a huge blow to my ego as a PF blogger that I can write things here on my blog … but can’t seem to explain why investing is a smart thing to my own husband. Hubby says this “investing idea” seems to be losing money, not making money so he’d rather just earn interest in a regular savings account, checking account, or a money market account.
“Ok, so just TEACH him about why investing is the best idea…”
That would work IF he was inclined to learn. Hubby feels he has his hands full with negotiating with re-up and studying for the promotion board, and I can almost SEE him tune out when I get started on the subject. His eyes either become unfocused or begin to wander about.
The best I’ve gotten from him in the time since he uttered that jaw-dropping sentence is “You take care of it … I don’t want to see it or bother with it. Just like my TSP.” Considering what the markets have been doing over the past year, I am extremely grateful the TSP only mails out annual statements.
So now I am thinking hard about how I can sneak little tiny microbits of investing info into our everyday conversations, since hubby is not inclined to sit down for an hour or longer crash course on what little I know about the subject. The problem is Hubby is every bit as stubborn as I am … but y’all probably figured that out months ago LOL He’d have to be, to marry me.
It sounds like hubby’s leave has been approved, so we will be heading down to Florida to spend a little time with my in-laws in less than two weeks. Perhaps I can get a little help from them. If not, there is still the 12 hour drive to get there and back … when he will be a “captive audience” so to speak! Wish me luck on this endeavor. I’ll probably need it.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
My suggestion is to just let it be until your FFEF is done.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
He said, “You take care of it … ” That’s what I would do if I were you. Instead of trying to educate him. I would play the it’s-important-to-me card. I think that will go over better. If he loves you and it’s important to you, he’ll go along. If he’s that uninterested, dropping tidbits could make things worse.
May 27th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
well look at it this way:
You’ve got this far along with him and finances.
Maybe you guys are at a plateau until something else happens to get him past it.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I think it is borderline impossible to teach your partner anything. It’s better he get it from a secondary source and you talk about it together. For example, get an audio book of your favorite personal finance author and listen to it on your car ride down to Florida (at least part of the time). Then you can discuss it as if you are learning together, even if you know most of what’s on the tape. You can bring up small pieces of info in the discussion to give you credibility while giving him something to mull over. Not like I’ve done this or anything… :^)
May 27th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
I’m more shocked by the 0% tax bracket! I wish I could pull that off… Taxes take a third of my income while I’m in up to my ears in debt. None of it from credit cards or mortgage. Explain that one to me.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Eesh, I understand a bit how you feel. Micah’s great in that he lets me handle the money—but he doesn’t want to learn about investing. That’s why I’m putting together an “if something happens to me” packet for Micah. Both the theory of why I invest the way I do and what funds I plan to invest in (and why!). I’ll probably put the funds (VFINX and the like) up front along with an explanation of why they might not be valid anymore for some reason. (Seeing as if I die in the next few years the market will likely change a lot before he does.)
I figure I can’t force him (though I try to slip in little lessons too!), but maybe he’ll pay attention if he needs to do it for himself.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Angie, as I suspected, you have student loans. I really don’t think you want the combined $28K annual income we have that goes with our zero tax bracket, nor the Army stuff that tends to drive civilians nutso.
As for the tips offered up, I think I will try to discuss the subject with my in-laws when we go down there … although I am worried I might discover that is where he gets the mindset from (I hope not, though!). I already tried to enlist a family friend to help, but hubby shut him down as well over the weekend.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Not knowing either of you, I think it’s a bad idea to push him into something he doesn’t want to be a part of. He’s already given you permission to proceed as you want. He just asked that you not make him a part of it. Pushing him will only drive a wedge in your relationship. Getting others to help push won’t help matters at all.
Personally, I’d leave it be. He trusts your judgement and that should be fine for you. I’m sure he does or knows how to do things you want no part of. I know my wife is that way and for the record, she’s like your hubby. She doesn’t want anything to do with the finances.
May 28th, 2008 at 7:56 am
This post really relates to my post today about the dave ramsey course we’re taking. The last class we had was “relating with money” and it talks about in a family when you have one person who is into budgeting and saving, and the other person just wants the other person to “deal with it”. They propose the idea of having family budget committee meetings - having the “budget nerd” put together a budget, and then having the budget “free spirit” come to the meeting, change at least one or two things in the budget, and have their say. That way they feel more invested in the process, and you’re communicating about money, but the nerd still gets to do all the day to day budgeting, spreadsheets/etc.
It’s an interesting idea, one we’re trying to use at my house as I’m in a similar situation where the wife usually just wants me to “deal with things”. It’s just so crazy it might work!
May 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am
It seems like your husband is actually against investing, but simultaneously has agreed to let you invest if that’s what you think is best. If I’ve got that right, I think the tough part is the amount that’s going to be invested.
On the one hand, I think it’s important to not feel “poor.” I get where your husband is coming from, I feel that way to some degree and my own husband feels that way even more than I do. But on the other hand, if you’re working your butt off to bring in money that’s intended for savings and investing and he’s just spending it, then that’s going to create a conflict. So eventually, the two of you are going to have to end up on the same page, for the sake of your marriage. And the key to getting there, of course, is to keep talking.
I think Sabrina’s on to something, in the sense that telling your husband this is important to you will keep the communication going. Perhaps the important thing isn’t so much to persuade him of the virtue of investing so much as it is the need to keep discussing so you can reach a place that’s happy for both of you.
This is a tough one and I wish you much luck. Oh, one final thought that occurs to me is perhaps you can propose that once the EF is fully funded, you will invest slightly less than you were putting into the EF and give him the difference as spending money.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:17 am
What an eye opener indeed! It’s great that the two of you are communicating about money, and having this conversation. Keep in mind, that is a big thing that too many married couples don’t do or don’t do enough.
He asked you to ‘take care of it’. Your best bet is to do your nerdly duty by working up your proposal and presenting it to the free-spirit. This is what I think WE should do with OUR money for retirement investing, and here is why this is so important to me. Then be able to back it up with some figures for what the compound interest would generate 30 years out for mutual funds vs. money markets. That’s usually the kicker - the big number at the end. He doesn’t have to and likely won’t be as in to it as you, just know what the two of you are doing, why you’re doing it, and be on board.
best of luck!
May 28th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Perhaps you could ease into investing by agreeing on a small-ish amount and a set period of time to demonstrate the process and the results. Sort of a trial run. Of course it is tough to predict results with investing but he might be more open to talking about it when “your crazy investment experiment” produces some real data as an example?
May 28th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Hmmmm… maybe you can find a way to invest in something he knows about or is interested in. Then you could ask his opinion on it and get him a little involved in that way. I also agree that after the emergency fund is fully funded, you might want to loosen that belt a tad and give him a bit more spending money. It’s tough on us free spirits to always be on a budget and I enjoy the challenge of living on less. I still find myself wanting to splurge just a little once in awhile.
May 29th, 2008 at 4:26 am
[…] at Debt Free Revolution had a revelation when she talked to her husband about how to spend their economic stimulus check. Sounds like there might be a little revolting […]
May 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Offer him an incentive… say 10% of the interest from the ‘investing’ - on a monthly basis - so he can SEE what happens when you invest… But don’t take the 10% out of the investment fund - take it out of your general fund - and let him have it as his ‘extra’ spending money
Maybe then he could see the sense in investing…’free’ money
I believe it is called dangling-a-carrot in front of his nose.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:30 am
Us males can be a stubborn bunch at times, but promise to buy him a nice present with a little of the extra money you make from your investments over a 12 month period. Stick with it, I agree that investing is good, especially for pension planning in the future.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:05 am
[…] DebtFREE Revolution - Hubby, Money, and Investing […]
June 5th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Ana,
Let him know it’s time to “Man Up”. Have him read or reread Dave’s book and pay close attention to the investing part. Next, sit him down in front of the computer and show him the power of “compound interest”. Don’t dangle a “carrot”, “present”, or “toy” in front of him to get him to do this. Explain to him how important it is that your both on the same page for this. I can tell he’s not 100% on board about this otherwise he wouldn’t feel “poor”. He needs to fully understand the final plan, stick to it, and watch as your money grows tax free in a Roth IRA. My 10 year old daughter finally has grasped this, I think he will too. Just ask for his input every time you think about what to invest in. Start by comparing the interest difference with a Money Market account, a CD, and a regular saving/checking account.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:04 am
Seams that he is being stubborn. Keep going at him about it – he will give in the end!
June 10th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Shhh… don’t tell my hubby but this post really reminds me of him. He prefers to leave his money in a 0.5% interest BoA savings account, and he says I restrict his spending now and he has to pick the games he really wants. He’s not complaining that hard though, because I don’t skimp on getting him the food he likes. He just says that I should manage the money and he trusts me, and I think that’s a blessing in a way. Having too many cooks in the kitchen can be chaotic, too. My parents both had their own ideas of investing and they ended up splitting up their money totally because my dad was really reckless.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
I have to disagree with the person who said bring this up on the Florida trip. One of the worst things you could do would be spoiling your vacation by bringing it up when you have him trapped in the car for a 12 hour drive. My wife does that crap constantly. Its one of the absolute worst communication habits I can imagine. Its not communication. Its a forced bitch session in which I cannot escape and all it does is kill the marriage.
I had to threaten to cancel this summer vacation if she pulled it again. Nothing like ruining a vacation and making life a living hell by picking a fight and poking your finger in a sore spot at the wrong time.
There are times to talk about things serious and times NOT to talk about things. Vacation and being trapped is NOT the time to talk about that stuff. If she really wants to chat about something that’s bothering her she needs to schedule a time to work on it when the kid is at Grandma’s. Vacation time is for building relationships enjoying time together - not purposely focusing on sore spots…
I really wouldn’t focus on it until you have the FFEF. Cross that bridge when you come to it. You can mention it casually. Just get a commitment to go meet with a financial adviser / mutual fund sales guy when the FFEF is done.
A better idea would be to call around an find a financial adviser who has similar interests as your hubby. Somebody who he is going to like. Mine is from Paris, TN. He’s into BBQ, guns, hunting dogs and sippin some of Tennessee’s finest from Lynchberg. Go for the pro and third party. (Who also will stack the deck in your favor via his commission).
Investing without him fully on board would be a very bad plan. Its just going to drive a wedge…. My wife and I have an agreement - we both have to agree to make a change or set a course of action.
Ok - I see you’re not comfortable with that part of the plan. You’re still feeling broke. well before we were living like money was infinate. Now we know - money is finite….
Dave talks about BS3b - saving up for a nice vacation. Moving up in cars. You may need to spend some time there until he doesn’t feel broke any more - but agree to limits in time and dollar amounts before you reconsider.
Personally, I can really relate with the guy. Before I started working Dave’s plan - I really felt rich. I can’t wait to get my house paid off so that I can go back to buying some boy toys again. Before I do that my wife will have to move up in car. Before we got married, I sold my boat, my jet ski, and the lake cottage. Now I’d just like a toy of some type. Something to spend my free time tinkering with and upgrading. I’m thinking a red dual top Jeep wrangler 2007 or newer. I’m also buying a nice smoker too we’re talking a pellet fed do small catering jobs type smoker and am going to put money in the food budget just for smoking ribs with the guys and not worry about the costs.
Hope this helps.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I have a wife in the same boat, although not as severe (she does engage finance, but only in short bursts). She has let me handle our finances for a majority of the 18 years we’ve been married; we had a short spot where she handled them for 6 months so she could learn how to in the event that something happened to me. It’s been a process, and we’ve had a few rough spots because of it, but now she’s educating her relatives in what I’ve taught her; she’s made the knowledge her own.
Lately, when trying to educate people about finance, I’ve found that the best starting point was to talk about the nature of money itself. I always carry a silver piece with me (single ounce round copy of the St. Gaudens Double Eagle - which is a replica of a pre-fiat $20 gold coin that is now worth about $20 in silver). I use my debit card, a dollar and that silver piece to show the differences between money, currency and wealth. I then describe counterparty risk, then inflation and it’s impact on purchasing power. From there, try to make them understand the “spend less than you make” approach to monthly budgeting. Only after I get past market cycles and some of the simpler points of the Austrian and Keynesian systems can I really talk about investing and properly preparing for retirement in any meaningful way.
I write on a semi-regular basis (four articles so far) for FreeMoneyFinance; one of them will help you get started and a couple other might help, if you’re interested:
www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/04/money-currency.html - a short explanation of what money is.
www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/04/purchasing-powe.html - a historical overview of US currency and inflation’s effect on it’s value. Kinda long, but I provide some charts.
http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/06/inflation-and-i.html - a short primer on how to plan for inflation in retirement. Also contains an explanation of the CPI.
None of the article are over 2000 words, and the first one is only 900 or so. If you’re interested and you think they’d be applicable, they could function as the third-party source that wouldn’t be a “you versus him” discussion. Good luck.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Just out of curiosity, how did you manage to get this far without realizing that your husband was averse to investing? I would have thought the subject might have come up, given your blogging habit. Good luck winning him over!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:45 am
If he’s TSP investing, the fact that his money is growing faster than bank interest should be eye-opening.
I motivated my young peers at work to sign up (before the required time) for the retirement plan by showing them my statements.
EMILY - Early Money Is Like Yeast: it makes the dough rise.
Your earliest invested dollars will have the most powerful growth.
Me, I’m tickled to invest. I sent off a check for $5k yesterday for my Roth IRA contribution for the year, and stopped by HR to sign up for the voluntary additional Roth 403b withholding–accomplishing Baby Step 4 and 7 on the same day. I’ll have to adjust my budget but man oh man, those statements are more fun than the assorted little bits of crap, food, entertainment I’d fritter it away on anyway.
Daddy was an accountant and an investor and there were always company prospectuses and mutual fund reports and the Economist magazine around my house. For which I am extremely grateful. It leads to a comfort level. This is normal.