Changing My Major
March 13th, 2008 by Ana
I’ve been seriously thinking about changing my major lately. Yes, part of the reason is the horrible things physics (a C last fall) and organic chemistry (also a C last fall, looks like I am headed for another C this spring) have done to my GPA. Two years ago I was on the deans’ list for my GPA of 3.75. It fell to 3.2 with the fall semester. Ouch!
Physics I just didn’t understand. I spent the last half of that class wondering Why is this required for me? and Who thinks of these things anyway?? Organic chemistry is very interesting, and I do understand it, but it is a true case of information overload. There is just so much new stuff in each chapter, and the professor makes some really tough tests. Considering almost a third of the class either dropped or flunked the fall semester, I am really not doing too badly. It’s just hard to see my GPA dwindle like this.
So I am thinking of switching from pre-pharmacy to medical technology (med tech). This would cut out the drama of how to pay for pharmacy school, which is $27k for tuition alone in the fall of this next school year. Add in books and fees and parking and gas for the hour commute each way, and it could get really ugly really fast, and due to first year attrition rates the scholarships don’t start until the second of four years.
My brain is a little frazzled by this point in the school year, so if my numbers look off feel free to correct me. I’m trying to do a cost-analysis between the two programs here.
Pharmacy school: approximately $30,000 per year, up to $35,000 at the end of the four years. Let’s call it $125,000 in cost with hubby’s income only able to cover about $5,000 to $8,000 per year. My G.I. Bill will be running out before I hit pharmacy school, so I would be looking at $80,000 to $105,000 in student loans. Average starting salary after you pass the board (and you must pass the board to get a job): approximately $100,000 per year in the Nashville metro area, a little lower here. Pharmacists are paid by the hour, and my mom says right now starting wage is about $42 per hour. I wouldn’t be in the workforce for six more years, give or take a semester, so that pushes my entry into the working world to 2013 or 2014.
Med tech: I could get this one done in about three or four semesters (two years max if I don’t do summer classes) at the most, and it would be local. I could cash flow college the whole time, and might have only one semester at the most without my GI Bill money. I could be working in 2010, and average starting salary of a med tech is $32,000 to $40,000.
Finally, there is the non-money issues of hubby’s deployments and son’s school and activities. There is no doubt hubby will get deployed at some point soon. Indeed, we have been rather lucky so far in that respect. Son starts high school in the fall, but has two years before he can get a restricted drivers license.
Short-term thinking says it would be so much better to switch my major and get my happy hide into the workforce where I can sock 15% of that salary into a retirement account and get it busy compounding and get my mortgage paid off quickly. But there is also the little vain thought in the back of my head that says a six figure income would be nice, and I might be able to make up for all the time and expense of the extra schooling.
Numbers nerds, here’s your chance to shine. How far out is the break-even point between these two options? To my caffiene-deprived mind it looks like at least 8 years, even if I put the pedal to the metal on those students loans as soon as I get out of pharmacy school. At age 35 I am not getting any younger, and I really need to get serious about some form of retirement savings.
Posted in college |
March 13th, 2008 at 8:53 am
OK, keep in mind that I am not at all a career minded person, so my opinion may be way off.
And it’s way too early in the day for me to be crunching numbers, so I’ll leave that to someone who’s already finished their morning coffee.
If it were me, I’d take the shorter program and pay for college in cash. At one point we had $15,000 in student loans, and it seemed impossible to pay off. If you’re not going to be working until you’re 41 and then have to pay off $100,000 in student loans, the program almost doesn’t seem worth it. Especially after you’ve worked so hard to get out of debt.
March 13th, 2008 at 9:03 am
It also depends on how much are you funnelling towards debt repayment per year? I know it’ll be a lot
but are we talking $20K? $40K? Your tax bracket will jump significantly so $100K isn’t all it is cracked up to be.
It sounds nice though… 6 figures.
Be realistic, but don’t ignore your dreams. Do you want to go to pharmacy school as a means to an end? Or because you have a love for it? I think that makes all the difference. A means to an end can be the med tech degree too. Starting salary is not forever salary - and without debt we could easily manage on $40K a year (with debt well, my spouse makes slightly more than that, and we struggle, but we’re getting there).
March 13th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Thanks ladies. Pharmacy school really is a means to an end here. I have so many interests it has been so hard to pin down “what I want to be when I grow up.”
Right now, I only have my mortgage as debt. If I do the pharm school route, I would concentrate everything left from taxes on repaying debt, because I know interest on a student loan that size would be a killer. Minimum would be $40k! Y’all know I don’t like that feeling of being in debt! Not to mention, student loans never die.
By my numbers, and the optimism that nothing bad will happen (yeah we know how that one goes…) it would be 8-9 years before I would actually keep any of that six figure income if I go pharmacy. But how long after that before pharmacy catches up to what med tech would do for me? Especially when you throw compounding into the mix?
March 13th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Trust me when I say this. Pick a career you will enjoy! I am a 46 year old stuck working at a job that I HATE! The pay is too good to consider leaving (and the bills are too high). DO NOT make the same mistake! The burden of paying off the loans will be easier to handle if you love what you’re doing.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I agree with CreditWoes - my life has been one big mix of jobs I love here and there - sometimes three at once. But I am enjoying my life, and that’s important. I am kind of shocked to learn that you are planning to go into debt for school. I mean, I understand that you are trying to get your income up, but to go to college just for an income increase sounds scary to me. I would recommend you chose the route with the LEASE debt to incur. And then, if you are tired of med tech later and have paid off all of your debts, you can continue with another degree in ten years in the evenings while making that big salary. I don’t know - my suggestion would be to take on as little debt as possible.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Trust me, Shanti, the thought of going back into the debt pit turns my stomach! I can do the med tech degree without debt, which right now makes it highly attractive. I am just wondering where the pharmacy option overtakes the med tech option, if at all.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Okay so I played a little number game. BUT I am not familiar with taxes at such high salaries, guessing the effective tax rate for 100K at 30% may be waaaaay off. You know, I like math but I hate research.
One wonders how I got a PhD.
Anyway, starting at 2010 with a 32000 salary and a 15% effective tax rate (again, I guess, who knows, it could be lower) at a 3% raise per year, I calculate that by 2017 you would have earned after taxes about $244K. Not bad! woowoo
BUT, I calculated with a 30% effective tax rate, starting in 2013 at 100K, and subtracting 40K in 2013, 2014, and 25K in 2015 for student loan repayment (interest and such I guess) by 2017 this plan surpasses the med tech plan and you would be at $265K earned after loan repayment.
The trick is, as the med tech keeps increasing slowly, the pharm one outearns by, after taxes, maybe $40-45 K per year at that point and increases faster because 3% of 100K is more than 3% of 40K.
BUT - do you think you can deal with the pharm school? That is a huge dropout rate and chem is not behaving as your friend.
I honestly can’t answer this at all, but I did have fun playing with numbers, which may not mean anything. lol. I think you the awesome saver and debt destroyer can do wonders with either scenario.
I do hate student loans but do not let my incredible hatred infect you.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
PaidTwice, thank you so much for the basic numbers on that. What I am really having problems with is the retirement savings aspect of this situation. If I get out as a med tech in 2010, and immediately start socking 15% away into a 401(k) and it compounds over the next 7 years it would take me to finish pharm school plus pay off the student loan…is it still an even numbers game?
March 13th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
If Pharmacy school is a “means to an end”, maybe you should switch to whatever will get you into the workforce ASAP. It’ll free you to look around and find out if you have a true passion. Makes no sense to go so deeply in debt for something you feel only lukewarm about.
March 13th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Hi Ana,
This is a fun one! So based purely on math, the med-tech one comes out ahead even 50 years from here. But the tricky part is that the math isn’t reality. When you compare them exactly, you would essentially be able to save ALL of the med-tech salary (after taxes) plus the $5,000 to $8,000 that your husband would cover for the first four years. I then assumed that you would save ALL of the pharmacy salary above the med-tech pay (after taxes) to pay off the student loan debt and invest. I ran it out to see when the pharmacy portfolio (returning 8%) would pass the med-tech portfolio and it never did after 50 years.
Ok, now back to reality…. you probably wouldn’t save all of your salary! So I reran it assuming you would save 15% of both salaries and you would put 5% of your pharmacy pay toward debt payoff (you would probably do more though). Then the pharmacy portfolio passes the med-tech portfolio (returning 8%) in 2028.
Of course, both of these are based on tons of assumptions… 3% raises, 4% student loans, 30% and 20% tax rates.
I think the big difference will be what you do with the extra salary for the 4 years of school you would avoid? Save it all, and you will probably come out ahead. Save some of it and the pharmacy one will probably come out ahead.
Now let’s get to the real question…. what do you want to be when you grow up? That’s the right answer!
March 13th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Does the medtech one come out ahead even in 50 years because of retirement savings? Assuming saving all of the salary for retirement, I mean?
I completely left out the hubby’s salary difference part. It didn’t even occur to me. lol.
Compound interest, you are a crazy thing.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Thanks, Madison, I had faith in your nerdiness (and I really do mean that in a nice way). So even with the huge difference in salary, med tech comes out ahead because y’all KNOW I would be saving like a madwoman after so many years of living too close to the poverty level.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
OK, I’m not a money genius, but hopefully I’m on my way ;). I don’t have the knowledge yet to do the figures, but the amount of income doesn’t really matter if you don’t enjoy the job. I worked in a GS position as a nurse on a military base for 4.5 year and made some VERY good money but the stress and BS that I had to put up with wasn’t worth it. I quit and almost left nursing entirely after earning a Master’s degree. After six months out of the workforce I worked for six weeks as a clinical instructor and eventually started full time as a nursing instructor. The paycut was huge, in the order of $13K annually but totally worth it. But believe it or not I’m back in school, working on another Master’s, applied to a PhD…neither of which will make a huge impact on my salary but I love what I do. That’s all that matters. I guess what I’m saying is don’t look at the income…do what you love. The rest will fall into place. Sorry for rambling.
March 13th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Since you are such a huge Dave Ramsey fan, I think you should ask yourself “what would Dave do?” What Dave would do is to get the med tech degree, get out in the workforce, and save like crazy to go to pharmacy school if that’s what he wanted. Then he would locate a pharmacy pregram that would be part time, and fund it out of savings and cash flow, taking extra jobs during any free time to help pay for it.
What I would if I were in your shoes do is a little different. I would seriously consider what I really want to do and what I really like to do. I would finish the med tech program and start working in that field for the income. Then I would pick up some extra work in some of the areas that I truly love and see how I could make a go of them, part time or full time.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
What will you make as a Med Tech? Will you get a job as a Med Tech? Lot of maybe’s. As a pharmacist you are pretty much guaranteed a job once you graduated and are licensed.
I’ve worked with pharmacists for over 20 years and about 85% of the ones I ask would not do it again.
Then you also have the risk if life happens and you don’t finish pharmacy school and you now have an anchor around your neck.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Tony, that is a HIGH percentage that would NOT do it all over
As for the potential of getting a medtech job, very good. Starting med tech salary is from $32k to $40k, depending on where you are and who hires you.
And that “life happens” risk is what worries me.
March 14th, 2008 at 3:51 am
Do you know which job you would prefer to do? Could you do some work experience or job shadowing as a pharmacist and as a med tech? You might find that you’d enjoy the job of being a medtech more than the job of being a pharmacist.
The other problem is that if you’re not doing that well in Organic Chemistry, is there a significant risk that you won’t actually be able to pass the more advanced chemistry courses? I think it depends on whether once you’ve made the leap to Organic Chemistry it all becomes easier, or not.
March 14th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Just a word of encouragement in case you do decide to stay with pharmacy - I was a straight A student before I flunked my first physics test in college. Trust me, I know how you’re feeling. It is possible, however, to come back from this! I got myself a tutor and worked really hard to understand the content, and I eventually got it. Subsequent physics classes were not as difficult to me after that. Today, I am enjoying a career as an engineer. Don’t give up!
March 14th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Hey, here are the charts for the federal tax brackets for 2007. Since you would be working in Tennessee, you don’t have any state income tax.
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=164272,00.html
I was kind of interested and amazed to see how they figure out the tax rates at different incomes. It actually isn’t as big of a deal to go into a higher tax bracket as a lot of folks seem to think it is, because only part of your income is being taxed at that higher rate, and the highest bracket is 35 percent. But someone making $300k a year and someone making $500k a year are going to be taxed at the same rate for that first $300k.
Not gonna try to do the rest of the math because I have not had enough caffeine yet. But it seems obvious to me you’ll have a bigger payoff faster with the pharmacy tech degree. HOWEVER… it’s a gamble. Getting the degree would be a serious struggle and you don’t know you’d get it in the end; if you were in your twenties with no kids I’d say take the risk, but you’re closer to retirement now. Because if you couldn’t get the degree and then something major happened to your finances, like a major illness or whatever (avert!), you’d need to not be in a lot of debt. At least you could sell your house in a pinch (or maybe a little more), but you can’t even use bankruptcy to get out of a huge student loan.
So… for what it’s worth.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Ana,
Keep your head up. I have a BS in BIo with a Minor in Chem. The absolute worse time of my college life was the year I had Physics and Organic.
You are not alone. My class average on exams in orgo was a 62. We had one girl who would consistently score in the 90’s and subsequently ruin the scale!
I don’t believe the average in Physics was much better. I got C’s in both and still managed to graduate cum laude. Funny thing both my lab grades were A’s!
These classes will probably be the hardest you take so if you conquer these the rest should come easily.
Steven
March 14th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Pharmacist make very good incomes. So you have a BIG shovel to take care of student loans when you are done. In terms of income it is definitely worth the effort to get through school. Going to school when you have family and multiple obligations is tough. Only you can figure out which is the best way to go!
March 15th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Here via My Dollar Plan with a random question for you.
Your husband seems like he’s career military. You’re 35, so I’m assuming he’s about the same age. Is he looking at retirement (or even early retirement?) with a COLA? Because if he is, that may play into your calculations.
It could be that with money saved from a med tech job, no debt, and his retirement, you could retire comfortably in your late 50s or 60s, and with the safety of knowing that he has a guaranteed, inflation-adjusted income coming in.
If you think that the debt from pharmacy school and “life happens” risk would still be causing you to lose sleep 15 years from now, then it’s probably not worth it. By that time, you could be only a few years from retirement.
March 15th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
I guess I’m one of the weird pharmacists in the 15% group that enjoy their work. Have you checked with some of the retail pharmacy companies? When I was in school (15 yrs. ago) Walgreens offered a tuition payment program that a few of my classmates took advantage of. I think at that time the commitment was to work for Walgreens for two years after graduation. Other companies may have similar programs.
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